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The channel for discussion strictly on the topic of tulpas. Take off-topic discussion to #lounge Forum's Tulpa Discussion Board: https://community.tulpa.info/forum/4-general-discussion/
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When talking about establishing or de-establishing habitual behavior, the point is that the change needs to be reinforced enough to cause that habitual behavior to change so that you achieve your desired automatic behavior.
11:38 PM
In other words, if you stop actively putting in effort to resist the inclination, will you continue to do it?
11:38 PM
...I will also point out - there is actually a study about this, as opposed to the anecdotes happening here.
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:38 PM
@SkyeNet Two consciousnesses in the same brain maintaining simultaneous separate perspectives in the form of sensory input and thoughts. Also, if you remove the word "simultaneous" from that sentence, you get my definition of plurality in general.
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Habits feel like a subset of "Things you can do with your mind", but most other things such as your actual memory are in another category entirely.
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That being said, while you can't simply (immediately) rewrite the hardwiring of the brain, a lot of things can be trained like "muscles" to function better, ie dream recall or just plain old memory. (edited)
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Huh, the abstract at least was an interesting read.
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Right. @Reisen, that was the point I was supporting before.
11:39 PM
One can reduce the amount of inefficiency of 'multitasking' with practice.
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I don't believe you'd be "changing" much in the physical brain by training mental muscles though.
11:40 PM
They'll still work roughly the same way.
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Right.
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Don't have the time rn to read through the whole study, but the abstract was more than enough to sort of prove your point. It depends on the habit, of course if they give them harmless habits they aren't going to have the willpower to erase it fast, but if you put in the effort, it goes away a lot faster
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[Well anyway. I still believe in insta-tulpas. Because the primary habits you need is empathy/ability to see things in different perspectives and dissociation. And then you just apply and you have another being. Kinda funny.]
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If you can force yourself to abstain from indulging in a habit for even a week, it resides much faster.
11:41 PM
You'll stop automatically doing it.
11:41 PM
I find it works with drinking, anyways.
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@Abvieon {Alex} My point is that the "simultaneous consciousness" you refer to is most likely an illusion, seeing as it is based on your internal perspective.
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:41 PM
What do you view a tulpa as?
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[Illusions that appear real to you are real to you. -Silina 2018]
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I don't think the tulpa-host relationship can be described as simultaneous consciousness, either
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That is consistent with what is known about how the brain functions with multitasking, and the way it seems internally.
11:42 PM
@Sete ...that statement is only true if you have an entirely egocentric perspective, that the world does not exist outside your perspective.
11:42 PM
It is literally inconsistent with the very concept of object permanence.
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The Thomas theorem is a theory of sociology which was formulated in 1928 by William Isaac Thomas and Dorothy Swaine Thomas (1899–1977): In other words, the interpretation of a situation causes the action. This interpretation is not objective. A...
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[Yup for me that's the case]
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"If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences."
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Well, then. I'm afraid that I can't agree with you, as I do exist when you aren't directly speaking to me.
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makes me think of old code with bugs in it that by no means should ever work
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I think a computer analogy does work well here, your brain is a single-core processor and as such can not multitask, so simultaneous tasks do not really work. In reality, you're going between the two tasks quickly, and true multitasking lowers brain efficiency in the long run. It's like 2 threads running on one core, they aren't simultaneous but they're close enough to create the illusion.
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but, despite being in production for years and years, were just worked around by users and fixed, never noticed, and ignored.
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beliefs definitely do have consequences, whether correct or not
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[Well I haven't really decided on that. To much effort to go to deeply into philosophy. Sete thinks that though and I don't mind the view, though I don't care too much for it beyond things I care about... humm]
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shouldn't work, dosen't work, but still works
11:45 PM
sorry, that was a bit out of nowhere
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reguile lmfao, I have so many programs from years ago which I made in grade school that are incredibly hacky and jumbled together like they were done by monkey with a copy of notepad++ but they work really well for some ungodly reason, that was too relatable (edited)
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@Sete Then, with all due respect, I don't recommend commenting on scientific research that depends on base concepts the typical person develops beyond childhood.
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[Hum? Recommendation denied. Sounds annoying]
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winter, are you arguing here that people can't truly multitask?
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...at the very least, some disclosure of worldview seems appropriate.
11:46 PM
@Reguile Yes.
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/r/iamverysmart
11:46 PM
is the place for you
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oooh, It's super rare to see that, you've got my support on that one.
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I also agree that people can't multitask.
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Multitasking is just switching between tasks.
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@Abvieon {Alex} I would believe that tulpas are quite similar to how you defined plurality in general - specifically, that tulpas are conscious as much as the host, though they typically would be reactive rather than proactive and respond to stimulus rather than causing it.
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Ilsze that's serialtasking
11:47 PM
Multitasking, in it's purest form, would be doing two things at once, like having one hand write an essay and the other typing up a different essay
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They are "simultaneous" in that there is the illusion of simultaneous thought. For most people, that's wonderful and they can believe they have simultaneous thought.
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or thinking about two different things alongside eachother in parallel
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But that’s not possible, is it?
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The question behind tulpamancy is not necessarily "can we do two things at once" but is often more along the lines of "can we do two very intensive things at once while we are very aware of one and totally unaware of the other".
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It's not possible at all. Humans serialtask, not multitask.
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[Hey I am proactive! Granted I am more proactive when I am fronting but still. Something about always having to be proactive in that situation.] (edited)
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...that's the point, Silina.
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That’s what I’m saying. There is no multitasking, only serialtasking.
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The fronting individual is the more proactive one.
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we can mutltitask to a degree, but the level of multitasking we can do vs what tulpas would require is like a horse vs a supercar
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Thanks for introducing that term to me, btw
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Beyond that, the ones not fronting are typically quite reactive by comparison.
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:48 PM
@SkyeNet What do you mean by responding to stimulus rather than causing it? If a tulpa speaks, they are putting forth stimulus
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[Still proactive. Sete doesn't specifically think all the time so I start thinking myself without prompting. Though he does it more often. humm]
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@Abvieon {Alex} Engaging in conversation where they noticed something they wanted to talk about is reacting to simulus - reacting to whatever they noticed.
11:49 PM
Actively going out of one's way to talk to somebody, without any prompting - that is proactive.
11:50 PM
...to be fair, most people are fairly reactive rather than proactive.
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Holy shit Skye, you don't have to be so pretentious all the time in a discussion. There's a line between coming off as smart and coming off as an arrogant prick who thinks he's superior to everyone here and you cross it big time.
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My name is Winter.
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Fine, Winter.
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[Helps that he seems to totally ignore the bodies stimilus all the time or doesn't react to it. I mean when me or Set front we are way more aware of the body than he ever is.]
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Sorry, I'm using a custom client so I can't see nicknames.
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I think of proactivity as reacting to internal urges, more trait based than situational.
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High, I think you're crossing a line here in talking about the person instead of the argument.
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reguile, I'm not engaged in the argument at this point.
11:51 PM
I mostly agree with Winter.
11:51 PM
Just making an observation, not arguing against him.
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I am also female.
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In that case, I feel like what you just said was attacking the person.
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And, to be clear - I don't consider myself superior to anyone here.
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:51 PM
Tulpas can talk out of the blue though thonkmorph
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aye, i didn't call her an arrogant prick, I said she comes off as one, reguile. A little different than an attack.
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I spoke my mind on it, there is little left to say.
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But, I do strongly disagree with taking subjective internal feeling and equivocating it with brain functioning that is observed externally.
11:52 PM
...I suppose I did go a little far with Silina. Apologies.
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Out of the blue means “sudden, unprompted,” to me. That’s mostly proactive.
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I also agree, which is exactly why I disagree with the idea that the physical structure changes with the creation of a tulpa.
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@Abvieon {Alex} Yes. Which is why I said "mostly reactive".
11:53 PM
If I see something that interests me, I will react to it by interacting.
11:53 PM
Hence why I refer to it as "reactive".
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Why even bother talking about physical structure of the brain? I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that within this discord chat that's an utterly pointless topic.
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[Interesting. What is actually multitasking? Doing 2 tasks at ones. I think something more interesting could be focus. The brains focus and how it moves. What are you focused on? Your tulpa? The entire brain? How much focus do you have? Seems more interesting than actual actions. Like I take some focus when acting and Sete has some. The more I take the less he gets.]
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It absolutely is, but scroll up, it was discussed previously
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[Actions are just too large, too complex while focus is smaller and more fluid.] (edited)
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If I decide to talk to a friend without having seen them, that is proactive as there was not a specific stimulus causing that response.
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:54 PM
Yeah, the physical structure of the brain need not be altered for the addition of another consciousness, it isn't relevant to tulpas
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Based on someone speaking on studies of multitasking in a TED talk, the accepted psychological definition seems to be quickly and efficiently switching between tasks. They're being done "at the same time" only in a longer-term general sense, ie doing homework and talking to friends, but not a literal one.
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People might still feel validated if their brain went through significant structural changes during the tulpa process.
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[Usually there is 1 entity holding all focus. With tulpas the focus is split. One entity doesn't own/hold all of the focus.]
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